Phil Wasden Lehi Chaplain Resilience Service

Work Hard Mortgage at Work Hard Mortgage

Phil Wasden Lehi Chaplain Resilience Service

Phil Wasden: Lehi Police & Fire Chaplain — A Story of Faith, Resilience, and Service

On This Page

Sponsored By

Who Is Phil Wasden, and Why Does His Story Matter?

Watch the Full Interview

Episode Overview

Guest Name

Role in Lehi

Time Periods Discussed

Host

Primary Topics Discussed

Resource for Listeners

Episode Highlights

Key Stories from the Interview

A Burial on September 11, 2001

An Inspired Move to Traverse Mountain

The Legacy Center Encounter

From Police Chaplain to Fire Chaplain

Electric Vehicle Fire Training

A Firefighter's Gentle Accountability

Joyce's Last Words

Historical Insights About Lehi

Community and Legacy Themes

Memorable Quotes

Related Lehi Topics

Photo Opportunities for Historical Archive

Full Transcript

Chapter 1: Welcome to Roots and Branches of Lehi

Chapter 2: From California to Utah — Phil's Journey

Chapter 3: Becoming a Chaplain

Chapter 4: Training & Responsibilities of Chaplaincy

Chapter 5: Challenges & Rewards of the Role

Chapter 6: Supporting Mental Health in First Responders

Chapter 7: Innovative Tools & Training in Lehi's Departments

Chapter 8: The Humanity of Police Officers

Chapter 9: Awards & Recognitions in Law Enforcement

Chapter 10: Community Support for First Responders

Chapter 11: Advice for Aspiring Firefighters & Officers

Chapter 12: The Role of Faith in Service

Chapter 13: Volunteering & Staying Active

Chapter 14: Final Reflections & Legacy

Phil Wasden Lehi Utah Chaplain Interview - Roots & Branches of Lehi Podcast

Quick Links
Contact

After 37 years in California, a single man moved to Traverse Mountain on inspiration alone — and became the spiritual anchor for Lehi's first responders.

Work Hard Mortgage helps families achieve the dream of homeownership in Lehi and across Utah.

Phil Wasden's interview on Roots & Branches of Lehi is a powerful blend of personal resilience, community service, and the quiet heroism found in everyday life. After spending 37 years in Chico, California, Phil's journey to Lehi, Utah began in heartbreak with the loss of his wife, Joyce, and ultimately led him to a new chapter shaped by inspiration, faith, and purpose. His move to Traverse Mountain in 2003 became more than a relocation — it became the foundation for a life of service to Lehi's first responders and the broader community.

In this episode, Phil shares how he became the chaplain for both the Lehi Police Department and the Lehi Fire Department , a role he never sought but one that found him. His stories offer rare insight into the emotional and spiritual needs of first responders, the evolving challenges of public safety work, and the deep bonds formed within these departments. Through his experiences, listeners gain a meaningful window into modern Lehi — its growth, its people, and the unseen sacrifices made to keep the community safe.

Phil's reflections on loss, mental health, community trust, and the importance of kindness resonate far beyond Lehi's borders. His story enriches the historical record of Lehi, Utah by highlighting the human side of civic service and the ways individuals shape the character of a growing city. For anyone interested in Lehi community history , first responder mental health in Utah , or the Traverse Mountain early development era, this interview offers essential perspective.

Prefer to listen? This episode is also available on <a href="https: <a href="https:

Phil Wasden

Chaplain for Lehi Police Department and Lehi Fire Department; U.S. Air Force veteran; former California state inspector

1960s–2020s, with emphasis on 2003–present in Lehi

Ryan Harding

Every homeowner starts somewhere. Whether you are just beginning to dream, getting financially ready, or already touring homes — this simple tool helps you understand your next best step.

Phil describes losing his wife Joyce to uterine cancer in 2001. Ironically, her burial took place on September 11, 2001, at the very hour the first plane struck the North Tower. Every year since, Phil has honored her memory by sitting at her graveside in rural Wyoming before sunup, meditating in a lawn chair. This day remains his personal memorial day, grounding his perspective on loss and gratitude.

After retiring in Chico, Phil searched across Arizona, Texas, Wyoming, and Colorado before an honest realtor suggested Utah. On inspiration alone, this single man purchased a six-bedroom home in Traverse Mountain in 2003 — a decision that puzzled the builder until Phil simply asked, "Do you believe in inspiration?" The home became a crossroads for family, fulfilling a vision he didn't fully understand at the time.

While walking the track at the Lehi Legacy Center, Phil was approached by a man he hadn't met before who identified himself as Lehi Police Chief Darren Paul . After observing Phil for some time, Chief Paul told him the department had decided he would make an ideal chaplain. Phil hadn't sought the role; the chaplaincy came to him.

After becoming credentialed with the International Conference of Police Chaplains and eventually earning the title of Master Chaplain, two firefighters approached Phil with a simple request: "We go on the same calls as the cops — will you be our chaplain?" This led to dual credentialing with the Federation of Firefighter Chaplains, making Phil a chaplain to both departments.

Phil recounts training with firefighters on electric vehicle fires, including a Tesla demonstration that revealed the challenges of extinguishing battery fires. He learned that EV fires can require over 15,000 gallons of water simply to control — not extinguish — and that specialized tools are needed to access battery compartments safely without exposing responders to intense heat.

During a stressful I-15 response at rush hour, Phil rode along with a firefighter navigating gridlock. When they returned to the station, the engineer proudly announced, "Chaplain, did you notice I didn't cuss once?" Phil replied, "I noticed that, but I was thinking it." The moment captures the humor, humanity, and mutual respect within Lehi's fire department.

In the final hours with his wife, monitored by his sister — a registered nurse — Phil witnessed Joyce's vital signs drop to zero multiple times. When his sister finally assured Joyce she had done everything in this life, Joyce's eyes flew open. The next morning, as Phil kissed her forehead and said "I love you," Joyce strained to reply with her last words: "I love you more." Phil has carried those words into every relationship and conversation since.

This interview offers valuable perspective on Lehi's institutions, growth patterns, and community infrastructure. Here are key historical insights from Phil Wasden's experience:

Throughout the interview, several broader themes emerge that reflect the values and challenges facing Lehi as it grows while trying to maintain its character:

This episode connects to the broader Roots & Branches of Lehi archive. Explore these related topics to deepen your understanding of Lehi's history and community:

To enhance this community profile, consider adding these visual elements to the historical record:

Ryan Harding: Welcome to Roots and Branches of Lehi, the podcast where we get to know the faces, stories, and lives that make up our community. I'm Ryan Harding, and I started this podcast as a way for us all to connect with the people we live alongside. Growing up in a small town, I learned that connections go beyond blood. They're built through shared experiences, friendships, and the moments we celebrate together. Each week, we'll sit down with someone new from Lehi to share their unique story, their passions, and what they love most about living here. So whether you've been here for years or just arrived, join us as we deepen our roots and reach out to our branches one story at a time.

Ryan Harding: Welcome Phil Wasden to Roots and Branches of Lehi where we get to get to know you a little bit better and kind of reflect on your life, some of the things you've done, that kind of thing. So I appreciate you coming in today.

Phil Wasden: So Ryan, thank you. It's a privilege. And I consider it an honor.

Ryan: Good. Good. No, I'm actually very much looking forward to this and getting to know you a little bit better and stuff. So maybe let's go ahead and start with kind of a little introduction here of you. How long have you been in Lehi? Did you grow up here? Talk to me about that kind of thing, I guess, first.

Phil: Well, that's an interesting start. So let's begin there. I lived in Chico, California for 37 years. And my wife was diagnosed with uterine cancer in 2000 and she passed away in 2001. Ironically, her burial was on September the 11th, 2001, at the very hour the first plane hit the North Tower. So that is my memorial day. Every year I am at her graveside before sunup in a lawn chair just meditating. And this all occurs up in a little rural area in northern Wyoming called Penrose. It's up by Cody, Wyoming and just south of Billings, Montana by Yellowstone Park.

We had talked before her passing of downsizing. We had a beautiful big home in California, but of downsizing and using the proceeds to finance a mission and we were going to build a home in Idaho. Well, things don't always go the way they're planned. So I continued to work until I retired in Chico. And then I started to look for places to live other than there. And when I came to Utah, I met a friend and he said, "Uh, have you considered Utah?" And I said, "Well, I've looked at Arizona. I've looked at Texas. I've looked at Wyoming, Colorado. Yeah, I'll check it out." And he said, "Well, I know an honest realtor." I said, "That's an oxymoron." No offense, realtor, but anyway. But I have worked with them. I was a state inspector for the state of California.

Anyway, I would fly to Salt Lake, rent a car, and we would — my realtor who was an honest realtor — she had homes outlined all the way from Provo to Lehi. And I would come and I would look and I said, after about three weeks of doing this every week, everything you've shown me is either next door to a neighbor — I can't get used to that idea — or the cost is the same as buying a house. And so she said, "Why don't you buy a home?" So I said, "Okay, do you have something in mind?" and she said, "Yes, we're going to start building homes up in Traverse Mountain." And I said, "Why would you live up there?" And she said, "Because it's in the middle of everywhere and in the middle of nowhere, it's equidistant between Provo and Salt Lake." And I said, "Show me where you would live." And so she took me to a spot and I said, "Why would you live here?" And she said, "Because I know there's going to be a tot park that I can look out my window and see my grandkids playing. There's a mail house right there and there's a church within a couple of blocks." And I said, "I'll take it."

And so the builder and I met at the closing in Orem and he said, "Do you mind if I ask you a personal question?" I said, "No." He said, "Why did you move to Utah?" And I said, "Do you believe in inspiration?" And he said, "Yes." And I said, "Then I don't have to explain it to you, do I?" I moved into my brand new home on Thanksgiving of 2003. And it was an inspired decision. I've been so happy with that move. It's proven to be the right one. And it's really interesting, Ryan. I am a single person now. And I bought a six-bedroom home. The inspiration is I have a place for family to come. We're kind of at the crossroads and so I have a place for them to stay and it's worked out very well. So in a nutshell, that's how I came to be here in Lehi. And it's been a marvelous place to be.

Ryan: No, I love that story. Talk to us then about — so you're a chaplain then for the first responders, right?

Phil: Uh yes.

Ryan: Talk to me about that. How did that happen? Because obviously you told me you were a state inspector in California, so that wasn't the job.

Phil: No, no, it's completely different. I served in the United States Air Force for six years active and reserve and the only chaplain I'd ever met in the military was James K. Seant, Latter-day Saint that took me under his wing in basic training in Texas. I admired him for what he did. And later he became the mayor of the city of Las Vegas. And was instrumental in getting a temple in Las Vegas. That's the only exposure I've had to being any connection. Although I was a military group leader for three years at Grand Forks Air Force Base. So I did have that connection, but it was not as a chaplain for the entire population. It was for Latter-day Saints.

I was walking — one of the blessings of me being in Lehi has been the Lehi Legacy Center. And I became involved in that almost the following week after I moved here in 2003. I was walking on the track one morning and a person came up to me that I hadn't met before and he identified himself as Darren Paul. The police chief for the city of Lehi. And apparently he'd been observing me for some time because he said, "We had an executive meeting and we decided you would make an ideal chaplain." So the chaplaincy — I didn't seek it, it came to me.

And I like to make sure when I say yes to something that I am capable of following through. And so I said, "Darren, I am not sure what a civilian chaplain does. Would you let me inquire and find out more information before I say yes?" And he said, "Certainly." So I was in touch with the headquarters for the chaplain in Salt Lake and they said, "Well, the first thing you need to have happen is you need to submit an application with your qualifications and that means educational background, everything. And we will screen it and you'll be endorsed or you will not be endorsed as a chaplain." So shortly after that I was endorsed as a chaplain.

Phil: Now there's a difference between ecclesiastical training and training that you receive within a department. And so I was in touch with another chaplain that ironically I was his bishop when he was just a kid. And he said, "You need to get some excellent training in such topics as suicide, handling ceremonies, handling issues within a department, counseling, and other related items." And he said, "One of the best places I can tell you is the International Conference of Police Chaplains." And so I became credentialed with the International Conference of Police Chaplains and I received training from them and that was over 10 years ago. And I still every year attend their annual training which lasts for a week. I just returned from a week's training and I was acknowledged at that time as a master chaplain. Now I progress through the areas of basic and senior and now master. And that is a function of educational units, training and experience. That was in Little Rock, Arkansas. And when I returned home, there was a nice ceremony at the city hall with the mayor and the board there.

But I have to go back a little bit. An interesting thing happened after I became chaplain for the police department. Two firemen came up to me. And they said, "Hey, we go on the same calls that the cops do. Will you be our chaplain?" I said, "Sure, might as well." I said, "Let me see what's involved with that." And checking it out, I learned that I needed to become credentialed with the Federation of Fire Chaplains. So I'm credentialed with fire and police and church. I got it covered.

And the firefighters training is — I trained both within the departments as I can. Like yesterday for example, I trained at station 84 with the firemen. They were addressing the issue of electric cars and fires. I learned a lot from that. I learned a lot from every one of these. But this was interesting. Electric cars when they catch on fire, you cannot put the fire out. They just have to control the burning so it doesn't involve other vehicles or other things around them. They had a fire of an electric vehicle at Point of the Mountain here not too long ago. And the fire was so intense it took over 15,000 gallons of water. And it didn't put the fire out. It just quenched it to stop it from spreading.

And I learned that there are certain places like we have the jaws of life, the cutters and the spreaders. There are certain places on an electric car that you can cut, but certain places that you cannot cut. That car, if you were to look at it like an X-ray, that is one massive battery. I mean, from the chassis, it's a solid battery through there. And those electrical ring links go all the way through the car. There's a huge amount of airbags. In a Tesla, it goes all the way front to back. It's not just a little spot. And so we learned how if an electric car, a Tesla specifically, they had a Tesla there that we demonstrated with. They showed how you could access the car even if the doors were locked and it was not running and the people inside were not able to respond. We learned there's a place to access the electrical system and you hook in an auxiliary power unit and it'll pop the doors open. In desperation, you can wedge through the window. It's a waste of time to try to break the window in a Tesla. It's tempered glass. So it's very difficult and it's hard to break through. But you can get to the latch and pop the door open or you can get a spreader in to pop it. Anyway, this is fascinating information. It made me think, wow, with technology, these people have to be trained constantly about the changes that are occurring both within the police department and within the fire department, first responders.

At the same time we were going through this training, other parts of the department were over on an active shooter training with the police department. And we kind of rotate those things around. As you know, we've had a very serious thing occur recently in our area. And the colleges and the police departments and fire departments are assessing what we would do differently. And that's interesting about the difference between the police and fire. I've learned they go on the same calls. But when the fire department returns to the station, they are evaluating as a group what went well, what didn't go well, what we should do differently next time and on and on. The policeman just climbs back in his cruiser and goes back to the next call. Sometimes there's not a debrief there until he meets with his sergeant or if we have a critical incident. And I have been involved in critical incidents. Sometimes those things get evaluated, but they're under such challenges. Everyone in the world has a cell phone or a camera. And they're all photographing and they're just waiting for somebody. Well, that's wrong. They will observe any slip up. Or a proposed slip up. And the policemen and the firemen have to make instant decisions and sometimes you can second guess those out of the heat. They're running into situations that everybody else is running away from. And I admire them so much for what they do. Sometimes it's a very tough and challenging job, Ryan.

Phil: But it's an honor and a privilege to serve with them. Now you may ask what I do. What is my job? My responsibility is first of all I'm a chaplain to everyone. Faith aside, no faith. Whatever. I'm a standing minister to them. If someone asks me a specific religious question, I will answer that to the best of my ability. However, I don't proselytize in any way. If I did, I would cease to be a chaplain. That would be because you're not trying to convert anybody to a specific religion. You're just trying to support them in a religious context. Exactly. I have been blessed. First of all, it's important to be among the folks, the officers and the firemen. They have to learn to trust you. That means keeping confidences is essential. If I were to repeat something that I've heard to a superior officer, I would cease to be a chaplain because I would have betrayed that trust. So I'm very careful about that. So if I talk about incidents with you, it would be in a very general term. I would not use names. Just to protect both myself and the individuals. But again, I'm not a licensed therapist. I have boundaries that I respect. I will counsel an individual to the point to where I feel they need professional counseling. And at that point, I would turn it over. The same thing with religion, if a Catholic asked me to do the last rites, for example, I would decline that and I would get a Catholic friend to do that. Because that's crossing a line for me. So there are certain things that need to be respected as a chaplain.

Ryan: And so do you have like office hours that you're at different places? Do they come to see you? Tell me logistically how does that work?

Phil: That is an interesting part of it. I'm really on call 24/7. But I have responded on some calls, ride-alongs. And one of them was kind of funny. I happened to be in station 81 when there was a call on I-15. At rush hour. And it was a parking lot on I-15. Both the ambulance and the engine rolled. And if you can imagine cars having to move a foot or two one way or the other just to let them through. And of course people would fall in behind trying to get through. And we had the air horn going and the lights and the siren and it just was like moving through molasses. We finally got to the scene. It was a vehicle towing another trailer that had a new four-runner in it that had whipsawed and finally flipped over and blocked all of the lanes of traffic. But the funny part was that no one was injured. That is a good part. The funny part occurred when we got back to the station and the engineer who was driving said, "Chaplain, did you notice I didn't cuss once?" I said, "I noticed that, but I was thinking it." But those are good folks. They just support each other. It's a family. And they're exposed to a lot of things. Right now I admire Chief Jeremy Craft. Our fire chief, he has been a real exponent for cancer. Because these folks are exposed to carcinogenic elements in fires and in spills and other things that unfortunately we have a high rate of cancer among our firemen and policemen and they and suicide as well. You might be surprised to know that among law enforcement, our suicide rates are higher than the military on a ratio. But Chief Craft has been active with the legislature and other means to get cancer screening for the fire department. And it's in its infancy. He's making some inroads. But we're talking fiscal issues. And those are not hard to move through. But I admire him. Both he and Chief Paul have faced cancer issues themselves. I applaud having gone through the cancer with your wife issues. I applaud anytime I hear that someone has put it in recession and it's Chief Paul has been successful at that. Chief Craft is still struggling but he continues to work. They show up for work. They wouldn't ask anything of those who work under them to do something they wouldn't do themselves. So I admire the leadership. Lehi is very well served in our safety areas and so I would be called a chaplain of public safety. I am one person. And eventually I suspect that we will have more chaplains but at the present time the chiefs are happy with what they got.

Ryan: Well that means you're doing good. You mentioned suicide and different things like that, the mental health of them. How do you approach that with those that are struggling? I'm sure you've had to deal with that in our area.

Phil: I have. And it's on a personal note, I've seen it within members of my own family. Not immediate family, but within my family. Sometimes the signs are not all that apparent, but there are signs and we need to pay attention to those. If someone starts giving away prized possessions they've held on to for a long time or they start making little comments like, you know, everybody'd be better if I weren't here or things like that. You need to take those comments seriously and you need to be blunt. You need to say, "Are you thinking of killing yourself?" And do you have a plan? Those are things that you have to pick up on. Not everybody can do that because a lot of times that's something you don't want to hear. Depends on how close you are with the person. But sometimes it sneaks up on you and you didn't catch the signs and you were genuinely surprised. And you start going through the guilt thing of saying, "I wonder if I could have done something differently. I wonder how I missed the signs." And it's a serious nature. You know, I met a person on the track. I meet a lot of people over there. And I would just — I had just become a chaplain and we had something bad happen in Lehi the night before involving some youth that were seriously injured and so on. And I as a matter of conversation I brought that up with this person and the response was "Oh there's so many bad things happening. Let's talk about positive things." And I thought, you know, that's right. And I think it's Ryan right now at this time, and I'm not going to get political. It's very important that we ratchet down the negativity that's taking place. And that's happening way above my pay grade. But what it does is it creates a sense of a person who may be a little mentally margin thinking, well, I'm going to do the country a favor and I'm going to take out that person. We've got to stop that kind of whether it's on nighttime talk shows or whether it's just in conversation. We need to be more civil to each other. Kind. More loving. Right. Absolutely. And that's one of the things I say to everyone. The parting words of my wife to me were, "I love you more." That came about after three times during the night. My sister is an RN and she was monitoring my wife's vitals and it was really interesting. And at one point her heart rate went to zero and her pulse went to zero. Her respiration went to zero. And my sister said, "Phil, she's gone." And she would snap back. And it was just like she was just stepped in the other room for me. And so at about 8:00 at night, same thing happened and my sister leaned into my wife's ear and she said, "Joyce, you've done everything in this life you could possibly do. It's okay to go." And Joyce's eyes flew open. She says, "I'm not ready to go yet." My sister jumped out. But the next morning, she did the same evaluation and she said, "Phil, she's gone." And she pinched her this time to make sure. And I leaned over and I kissed my wife Joyce on the forehead and I said, "I love you." And I turned to walk away and in a voice that was strained but hard, she said, "I love you more." And that was her last words. So I've used that with everyone that I want to make sure I don't check out and let them know how I appreciate them, how I love them. And you'll, if you come to my home, you'll see that plastered all over. One of the gifts that she gave me, and she gave me a bunch of gifts that I didn't know anything about, was a flaming red hooded sweatshirt and it had "I love you more" appliqued on. I bawled like a baby when I saw it, opened that present. But anyway, I have found in conversations with individuals, everybody is going through something. Everybody is having a challenge of some sort, Ryan. And we can ignore those or we can address them. I appreciate what this person on the track told me because I don't have to get down in the mud and dwell in that and to share it with others. I need to bring the light and the hope to others in a positive way.

So one of the sweet things that I have done as a chaplain and I have had some really good positive experiences. I remember going with the police chief in West Valley to the home of an officer that had been slain, had been shot. They were expecting us — the parents, a son, and a fiance to the police officer. And when we went, we heard the sound of a radio saw going on and they couldn't hear the doorbell ring. And the chief turned to me and he says, "I've always wanted to do this." And he banged on the door. And they said, "Who is it?" And he says, "It's the cops. Open up." But it was obvious to me that he was a frequent visitor of that home. He knew those people. And I made a presentation to the family and that consisted of a certificate from our president of the ICPC. And I gave them a Bible. And the father said, "Oh, the chief said, 'What was all the noise?'" And he said, "Let me show you." And he took us to a room that was probably 9 by 12 in size. There was a Lazy Boy rocker sitting in the middle of the room. It was painted white and there was a blue border about 2 inches wide around the seated area and he had placed the flag, the folded flag of the officer, certificates, all of the things that he'd accumulated in his short life. He was just a young man. They were around that room. And the father said, "When we get to missing our son and when we get to feeling like we need to meditate, we just come in this room and sit in the easy boy and this is a very calming room for us." I thought what a neat way to memorialize your family member. And when we left the chief said to me, "I've tried to talk this younger brother out of becoming a policeman." That's interesting for a chief to say that. And I said, "Well, has it happened?" He says, "I don't think so." And then I read later that he was in the graduating class of the police academy. So yeah, he wanted to follow in brother's footsteps. He wanted to follow his brother's footsteps and I admired that. Which makes sense. But I've had some experiences that — I'm a volunteer. I don't get paid for what I do, but I do get paid big time. Just last Saturday, I officiated my 14th wedding as a chaplain and it was a sweet thing because it was another chaplain. And those are sweet times. I enjoyed those a lot more than I do funerals or memorials. I have conducted five memorials now for canines. We treat canines like we do officers because they're on the force. Yes. Unfortunately, two of those canines have been in Lehi. But there are others as well. But the blessing and privilege of being a chaplain is when you have those moments where you feel that you've made a difference. It could be minute. Sometimes you don't need to say anything. You just need to be quiet and listen. That is more beneficial sometimes than anything you might say. There are some trite things that I try to avoid saying. For example, "I know how you feel." No, I don't. That's personal. That individual, they know how they feel. And I may have had some experiences with the loss of loved ones. But I don't know how they feel. And so I'm careful about some of those things to not offend them by something I might say. And I've had some wonderful things. I've had some things that I would like to do over again differently. Not many thankfully, but I think about those. And after 10 years of having this opportunity, I'm still learning. I still train. I still learn. Again, I just underscore what a wonderful privilege it is. It makes me happy to have the guys — and gals — when I walk into the station greet me and welcome me and not as an outsider. Now, I didn't tell you this, but for the duration of my military career, I was in the air police. So I have some background in that area. Not like civilian, but different. And I can tell you enjoy what you do.

Ryan: Tell me about some of the more rewarding things, like the marriages and different things like that that you've been able to do. My guess is it's not all easy. So tell me, speak to some of the more challenging aspects of the job.

Phil: Sometimes, and I'm going back several years now, thinking about a couple of situations without getting into the details. I felt very helpless at one time sitting in a critical incident where there had been a child that had been run over by its mother. On that same day, a bicyclist was run over by one of these big gravel trucks that had a trailer behind it and she did not see the gravel truck behind it. That's more detail than I wanted to give you. But I looked at the faces of the first responders and on a critical incident, the only individuals involved and we sit in a circle. We don't talk about what so and so did. We talk about what we did, what our feelings were in the matter. And I watch carefully the individuals to see. And if there's anyone that has to get up and leave the room, I will get up and go with them until they come back because sometimes what they've experienced is so hard that they are reliving it. Now there's a treatment for that stress called EMDR and it's a function of flashing light. Sometimes one treatment is sufficient to take the stress out of that person and they can deal with them. But in this case I'm thinking it was hard for me to just hear the review and they were talking about they weren't being critical of anything. They were just debriefing of what happened as a group and I hurt for them when they experienced those things but a lot of times they cannot talk about them to their family. That's the last person they want to talk with about. Because when they leave and they kiss their loved ones goodbye, they want to know that they're coming back after the shift. And so a lot of times it's hard for a policeman or a fireman to share anything outside of the work family. And for my experience, my father was killed in a fire when I was five and he saved my life actually. And the trauma of that I remember to this day. I remember in vivid detail and I'm sure that every incident that our policemen firemen go through they remember in vivid detail as well. And it's not something that you want to relive but you want to learn from those things. And just like I said before, what would we do differently next time?

Ryan: Is that an area you think we're improving on? As a society, it seems like we're more aware of mental health and different things like that. And I would assume probably in specific with first responders who by definition are the first ones on the scene and often times they're seeing things that frankly I don't even want to see in a movie. And so yes, it is and I'm sure that's very hard to go through.

Phil: Well, we are making very significant strides in that area. It used to be in the wars, specifically the first world war, when they called it battle fatigue or something like that. Anyway, they struggled with that. We call it different things now. But we call it PTSD. We — the labels we put on that — as I mentioned there is one treatment, EMDR, that works with that quite well and that's something that a professional would be involved in and I would recognize to step back at that point. We do have with the city treatment. These are the folks we're dealing with are folks that don't want to appear weak or timid. So it's hard for them to express themselves in a manner that would indicate any weakness. And I asked once here a few years back about how many people actually use the facilities and they said not many. Hardly anyone. And it doesn't reflect on the person's employment because it's kept private. But it's still hard for a person to bring themselves to that point. But mental health is critical. You don't know what you're going to get when you get on a call. And you prepare. You train. You do all that you can, but the first thing that you do is protect the life and property of the citizens and your fellow officers. Whether it's a policeman or a first responder.

Phil: And I am pleased with the level of training that I see in the city of Lehi police and fire. They are constantly training. Just a tool for example that just was new to me yesterday. There is a rod that's probably 10 foot long that has a multi head sprinkler on the end of it and they shove that up under the car where the batteries are located with the electric motors. And that way they're not exposing themselves directly to that intense heat fire. That's just another little tool that has been developed and we keep improving, keep developing things that keep us safe and keep others safe. I don't know if that answers your question.

Ryan: That answered my question. No, that's perfect. Now tell me, are there any maybe misconceptions? You mentioned that tough exterior, right? I mean, cops, a lot of our interactions with the police is getting a ticket, right? For speeding or something like that. So tell me, having worked with both them and the firefighters, what are some misconceptions maybe or kind of address the humanity, I guess, of these people?

Phil: You know, it's interesting. If a ticket were issued for every speeder on I-15, there'd be no traffic up there at all. I think too many people regard the speed limit as a suggestion. And but involving traffic stops. I saw something that kind of wore my heart. I can't remember. I believe it was in Texas where they did traffic stops and the person driving was very defensive. The first thing you want to say, well, I wasn't speeding. What are you pulling me over for? And it was Thanksgiving time and they gave them a turkey. So there usually when the officer comes up to a vehicle on a stop, those are dangerous stops, by the way. A lot of the shootings of police officers have occurred over irate drivers that use a weapon and so typically an appropriate stop would involve two officers. One would be slightly behind and to the right rear of the car where the other officer is approaching the driver and the other officer is observing any activity inside that they might by threatening or something. Usually all they're doing is trying to enforce a safety issue. And when we know we're guilty, sometimes we think we can either bully the person, especially if it's a female officer, or to talk our way out of it some way. I will be honest with you. I've had one ticket in my life. One. It was 5 miles an hour over the speed limit. It was in a 35 mile zone and I was doing 40. And but I realized that I was wrong. And I just had to be honest and say, you know, you're right. I did it. But the misconception is that they're out to get you. They're not. They're there as a public safety to help you be safe. And there are other misconceptions about either firemen or policemen that if we understood the circumstances, we would probably think differently.

Ryan: Which I think is helpful to know sometimes, you know, because I think again we that's why it's good to get to know people, right? I mean, that's kind of actually even the purpose of this podcast is just to make the world a little smaller because then we do love each other more, right? And then we're less judgmental.

Phil: Reality is like hey these are real people who are doing their best you know like you said with safety issues and different things like that trying to actually make the world better is what they're trying to do right. And so I like the you're talking about the humanity of these people right and that because again I think that's the hope is that we do then love each other more right.

Ryan: So, well said, Ryan. Yes. I have to laugh remembering back at Chief Paul something. I bought a new Dodge Dart a few years back. And when he saw it, it's a it looks a hotter car than it is. Believe me. And the first thing Chief Paul said to me is, "Phil, whatever you do, don't get a ticket." Meaning, I'm not going to bail you out. You can't name drop me. That's good. That's good.

Ryan: So, you've received some awards and recognitions for your job here. Tell me about some of those.

Phil: I have. While I was at my training in Little Rock, Arkansas, I spent four hours a day for a week training to become an instructor for United States Constitutional Law as it applies to law enforcement. So I'm a licensed instructor for Hillsdale College in the constitution and applications. That's one award that I received. The other awards — I was surprised with one. The police department has a community service award. And I was I believe their first recipient of that award, maybe the second. That was an honor that I had not anticipated. And it was based on the person's contributions to the community. There's some other people up on that wall that they have, the honor wall in the Broadbent building that are far more worthy of that award than I felt. I bet they feel the same way too about their own contributions. I mean, I think everybody feels like everybody else is a little bit better, you know. So, but I'm sure you're very deserving of it is my point. Well, thank you. And each progression level within your national conference police chaplain. I have also served the last four years on a committee that involves the integrity of chaplain. And I'm happy to say to you, not once in that four years did we have an issue with a chaplain. Nice. Nice. That's not to say there's bad apples anywhere, you know. Of course. Of course. But as long as there's agency, right? Exactly. Yeah. I had to laugh one time. I among the really neat things I've had with the city. I have dedicated two fire stations and the fire engines in both. The fire department is big on tradition. And the wash down of the vehicle and pushing it into the bay is one of them. When I was in Wichita, Kansas at one ICPC meeting and one of the chaplains from the South that I've got to know real well said, "Hey, Phil, what branch of Baptists are you?" And I said, "Well, actually, I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." And he said, "Oh, there's not very many of you guys, are there?" I said, "No, there's not." He said, "You would make a great Baptist chaplain." And I said, "Stuart, you would make a great Mormon chaplain." And so I was telling the guys, I had dedicated station 83 and the engine. And one morning I was just listening to them talk and they were talking about all the problems they're having with the engine, station 83. And I said, "Wait a minute. I dedicated that engine." and they said, "You should have given it a Baptist blessing." I would have. I like that. That's awesome. But I've had the opportunity to dedicate the building and the land for station 84, our newest station. And I dedicated the city campus that's being constructed right now. That's an exciting addition to City Lehi. And so those are kind of fun things I do as a chaplain too. Yeah. Yeah. No, great privilege to be a part of those things I'm sure.

Ryan: So it is — so we've hit a lot of these things. So a lot of the questions — well they were well constructed, a compliment to you. Thank you. I just want to make sure we hit again because you hit a lot of those things already but so talking about the community and stuff like that. How do you think the community can better serve first responders? You know, what things can we as a community do to help them?

Phil Wasden Lehi Chaplain Resilience Service | Work Hard: Homes - Stories - Community